Season 13 thoughts so far

[amberdreams]

With spoilers for episodes aired, none (hopefully) for future ones.

Firstly - I am enjoying what we've been given so far. I'll put that up front before I start, because the rest of my ramblings might give a contrary view.

The griping part - Things I Did Not Love:

• I did not enjoy that they killed Missouri. Not one little bit. I've been wanting her brought back since I first saw her back in Season 1, and then this bunch of wankers go and kill her off before she's had more than a couple of scenes. I'm not a happy bunny.


• I really, really wish I did not know about the spin off. I wish I didn't know that the CW favour pretty young things. Because it was like an anvil dropping on our toes to have Missiouri ( the middle aged, charismatic and kick ass character) killed off in order to preserve the obviously-to-be-spun-off, oh-so-pretty Patience. And if that actress is 18 I'll chew off my crushed toes and feed them to my non-existent cat.


• Castiel is back. Sigh. Surprise surprise - even without Jared's blurt at JIB, or all the promo posters having Cas on them, etc, etc, it was bloody obvious he'd be back. I had held out some hope for AU Cas which might have made him more interesting again, but from what we got here, it looks like he's just been resurrected. Again. By Jack, which is what I'd predicted/feared when the Season12 finale aired.


• Sigh - I accidentally saw the title of next week's episode. Way to kill off any speculation about where Castiel might be.

The more positive parts:

• The shallow stuff - Our boys, they are so pretty... Dean is looking older, tired and worn, Sam is being lit beautifully with deep shadows and stubble, and it's all gorgeous.


• I'm really liking how the Winchesters are interacting. They are being brutally frank with each other, but the knives aren’t out. They are listening.


• Sam is softer and more reminiscent (in the way he's speaking) of early Seasons Sam, but without that fierce undercurrent of rage that used to fuel him. That's been replaced by something steely and determined, and I've got to say, Jared's acting is just wonderful. He's conveying such compassion but combined with an inner strength that makes him suddenly imposing, and for more than his sheer physical presence.


• Dean is such a master of suppression by now I doubt he even knows he's doing it. I'm loving how weary this Dean is, even while I miss his childlike pleasure in things. The grief he carries is part of his very fabric, and I also loved that Missouri could see that so clearly.


• Jack could be a very interesting character - so far the actor playing him has been excellent, giving us nicely nuanced performances. This latest episode didn't give him quite as much to play with, but it was enough to keep me hopeful that the writers will do something that allows him to develop in unpredictable ways.


• I’m still hopeful!

The odd observations:

• I want to watch the show. I want to know what happens to our boys – but I’m not excited about it any more. I’m liable to forget it’s a show day, and I’m not waking up too early, eager to see each episode like I used to be. I’m happy to wait for the email from iTunes telling me the episode is ready to watch, instead of trawling the internet for downloads because I can’t wait that long.


• Fandom – fanfic, fanart and conventions – are what is keeping me attached and interested.


• I’ve started watching a few other tv shows – Man in the High Castle, restarted Arrow, trying to get into Preacher. I’m reading Marvel fanfic, I think I could get into the Red Hood and Nightwing.


• While I’m happy Wayward Sisters got the go ahead, I’m half dreading it.


• There is nothing else coming close to replacing SPN in my heart.

Comments

[toratio.livejournal.com]

I'm really anxious about Jack. I want them to do something interesting and different with him. If he just becomes evil and the next big bad, and Dean just spends his time rubbing it in Sam's face I'm gonna be pissed - I'm hoping they won't do that, because he's an interesting, and quite sweet, character. I've been watching bits online (since it hasn't fucking started in Australia) and every time Dean starts yelling I get seriously anxious, like I'm listening to my parents fight. I have no idea why, but this show sometimes stresses me the fuck out.

And yeah, Cas coming back. I dunno. Can they find anything new and interesting for him? Sometimes bringing him back feels too much like fan pandering.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Castiel is a real problem for me. I think they haven't known what to do with the character since Season 6 onwards and have been trying this, then that, then the other... with the net result that I am SO bored with him. if you aren't into the whole Destiel thing, the amount of feeling between Cas and any other character isn't actually enough to maintain interest in their relationships - Destiel is very much an 'eye of faith' thing, apart from the odd occasion where the writers slip something in that is clearly there to ignite that part of fandom.

So the idea that 'our' Cas could really have been dead was actually good for the show. They had the AU there, so they could bring Misha the actor back, plus they could totally rewrite Castiel - bring in fresh ideas and a new sense of hazard. The potential for building real relationships between a new Castiel who was a stranger, and Jack and the Winchesters - now THAT might have been worth watching.

If all they do is resurrect old Cas, with all that baggage of dullness, well. I can't say I'm interested at all - in fact I'm the opposite of interested.

[toratio.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of that. I just want them to kill him, or do something interesting with him.

... in a weird way, I kind of would've liked to see Jack become the new Cas.

And I am so done with Destiel. It never bothered me until it became some insane obsession with a small group of very vocal people.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Yep. Destiel is just fecking annoying now. Show, stop pandering to them!

[toratio.livejournal.com]

Really, though, apart from keeping Cas alive, the show doesn't pander that much. A lot of it is either assumed or read into things that are ordinary things between friends, which is fine, but seriously.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

The potential for building real relationships between a new Castiel who was a stranger, and Jack and the Winchesters - now THAT might have been worth watching.

SO MUCH YES. But I guess that's not to be, unless The Empty has somehow wiped him, reset his memory to the original model. I'm sick of Cas being some sort of sacred cow, can't get rid of him because of fandom, can't figure out wtf to do with him because as a species, he's too powerful. *flails*

[sillie]

Sorry to butt in but yes. Yes to all of this. *sighs*

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

A big sigh and eyeroll was my reaction to the Cas scene at the end of this episode...

[jj1564.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with the first two things you didn't love! I am so angry that they brought Missouri back just to kill her off. I knew from spoilers that her granddaughter would be in the spin-off (frankly I'm surprised they're having Jodie and Donna in it at all, aren't they way too old??!!) but I thought Missouri would still be around.

I also hoped Cas would come back in a different version, but I'm looking forward to Cas being Jack's dad if that's where this is going, as I think they'll be pretty funny together.

Dean's sorrow, Sam's compassion and Jack's sweetness redeemed this episode for me, and I agree wit you that Jared's acting is wonderful. Sometimes I overlook how good he is because JENSEN!! but he's become an amazing actor.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I feel Jared has grown up with Sam, so that level of comfort and depth of knowledge of this character is really shining through now. Plus how satisfying it must be that they are finally allowing Sam to explore some of his past! I'm really loving that part.

I'm totally angry they got rid of Missouri like that. It felt utterly unnecessary and frankly, disrespectful to both us, the fans, the actress and to the character herself. There are all sorts of things they could have added to Patience's back story to push her into Wayward Sisters, without bumping Missouri off. Yeah, this whole bright young things aspect to Wayward is going to piss me off, I can tell. I really hope the fan reaction to Jody and Donna will make the CW see that they need balance and variety to make a story successful.

[jj1564.livejournal.com]

I feel Jared has grown up with Sam, so that level of comfort and depth of knowledge of this character is really shining through now. Plus how satisfying it must be that they are finally allowing Sam to explore some of his past! I'm really loving that part. HEAR HEAR!!

It was disrespectful to kill her off after making such a big thing about her coming back, as well as disappointing. Perhaps we'll have her back as a ghost to whup some sense into Dean's thick (but so beautiful) skull!

The only reason I'll be watching Wayward Daughters is for Jodie and Donna, and when they first mentioned the spin-off I hoped we'd get them two being a hunting Cagney and Lacey, but I think it will be another teen-centric show with them side-lined. I hope I'm wrong.

[fanspired]

I don't believe anything will replace the original 5 seasons of SPN in my heart, not in this lifetime. I've become a recent convert to Game of Thrones, though, and that has inspired a degree of obsession that nothing else since SPN has. Just starting my 4th re-watch of season 7 now. But bear in mind that, in the 7 years since I first watched SPN, I have never stopped rewatching it - over, and over, and over . . . Like I said, that kind of obsession comes once in a lifetime.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Aye, I'm with you there. I've never been so immersed in something before - not Lord of the Rings (which I read until my copy fell apart and then stuck it together read more times than I can count), not Alias Smith and Jones that I wrote fanfic for without knowing it was fanfic, nothing compares to this show.

Game of Thrones - ah indeed. I loved the first 4 books from when they were first published then he started annoying the hell out of me, and I haven't really forgiven him. That's rather impaired my getting into the show, though I watched and enjoyed Season 7.

[fanspired]

Oh, blimey, Alias Smith and Jones . . . another Sam and Dean prototype I'd forgotten :) But yes, Lord of the Rings is another of my great obsessions, and apparently there's no such thing as too much Harry Potter either - or at least not the last two movies . . . but Sam and Dean . . . they are ALL the stories, all the obsessions, come home.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

So it would seem - until I became obsessed with SPN I never put together that the television I'd loved the most featured either brothers or buddies - now I look back and I can see I was always drawn to male pairings - never in a sexual way back then, but it was the dynamic that appealed to me the most. AS&J; Starsky & Hutch; the brothers in Lancer; Manolito and Buck in High Chaparral; Paul Newman and Robert Redford in the Sting, and Butch Cassidy... Added to which I was drawn to hurt heroes since I was in junior school - and yup, SPN has all that in spades!

[fanspired]

Ha! Read my profile on fanfic.net It's like the same story :)

https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3058959/fanspired

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

IKR? One more reason SPN fandom felt like coming home!

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

If I'd been aware of fandom shenanigans for Alias Smith and Jones? I'd have SO been there.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

My first love, I think. Hannibal Heyes. I was eleven years old and totally smitten. I'd walk to my granny's every Monday night to watch AS&J and Star Trek and write about it in my diary.

[jimbobjoe.livejournal.com]

I want to watch the show. I want to know what happens to our boys – but I’m not excited about it any more.
Yeah, that's it for me, too. I still love watching the boys; I still love looking at the pretty. But like you, I usually forget it's Show Day until about an hour before it starts.

Also, OMG, you are so right about Jared's acting. I'm blown away!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I feel a little sad about it, but hey, I'm still into it, just not as deep. Plus I love fandom's creativity, and hope that it will continue for a while yet. because I don't know where I'm going to go when it all ends.

[jimbobjoe.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, I know what you mean. I don't know where I'll go either!

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Before I read any comments, I have to reply with a resounding ME TOO. My experiences are echoing yours, almost verbatim. Right down to the odd observations. (If I could go to more cons, I would.) I think we're outgrowing what the show is becoming. I mean, it has been a loooooong time. I'll stick with it to the end, but the writing just isn't there anymore. Hasn't been for ages, but hey, hope springs eternal, right? Well, my spring has gone done dried up. While I really cheered over the conversation Dean and Sam had at the end there--mostly because this baggage has been hanging over everyone's heads like a giant anvil--the rest of the show is a wan shadow of its old self. I get that things must evolve and time marches on and all that yakkity smack, but the lightning is out of the bottle and the spark that made SPN "the little show that could" is no more. I feel like they're trying to manufacture it for Wayward Sisters, and it JUST. AIN'T. THERE. Point of fact, I couldn't be less interested in any of the characters they've been grooming for the new show. Just feels like a seething morass of Mary Sues; a 'healthy', social-justice approved snore fest. It's not like I don't want better rep and a lack of misogyny, of course I want better! But I also want pretty guys and horror and flawed characters and ESCAPISM. Anywho, I'm sure this all makes me a bad feminist and a bad fan. Oh well. Guess that's what I am, then.

I'm also super-bitter that Wayward Sisters is taking up valuable real estate in the SPN season. I totally understand why it has to be done, but it's sure has hell not endearing me to the spin-off either.

No other show is tickling my fandom fancy, and I'm half glad. I'll be working on more original stuff once SPN has worked its way out of my system; I don't need another fixation, heh. I'm enjoying Preacher and Ozark and The Expanse ... none of which are airing right now, dern it. The John Wick universe is interesting to me, but not so much that I wanna do fanworks for it. Same with Kingsman. It's at once more fun but less passionate to watch shows w/o an eye to how to manipulate that into fanworks, and worry about how fandom will respond to this, that or the other. Maybe I'll actually start reading original fiction again, gasp!

Big hugs, woman. Big hugs.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Ahhh original fiction, I remember that... I'm not quite there yet, I've been trying to read 'real' books but they don't grip me, I find I'm dipping in and out and not remembering anything. Though I have read some bits that resonated - use of language, world that aren't this one, and aren't American... It feels a bit radical to be thinking other thoughts. One thing I want to do is rewrite my novel - I think it needs it.

I had a conversation today with someone very taken with The Expanse, but as it's on Netflix I'd have to wait for the dvds.

I confess that I was always wary about Wayward Sisters - I want it to succeed but doubt it will be my cup of tea. I still regret the ones that got away - Ellen and Jo, Bobby and Rufus, something that could have spun off from the Winchester verse with credibility and solid background, and humour. These over-earnest, unfeasibly attractive pseudo teens are just not for me - I find them too unbelievable and basically boring.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

ELLEN AND JO. *still pouring one out for them*

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Ellen remains one of my favourite characters ever.

[harrigan.livejournal.com]

The Expanse!!! (See my reply to quickreaver...)

I found that the plot in season 1 was so intricate I had to read the books to figure it out. (Season 2 is much more straightforward.) But the CHARACTERS! Are so worth making the effort. Let me know if you want a cheat sheet on the S1 plot elements so you can focus on the characters. ;D

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Aw thanks- I'll take it! I'm just looking on Amazon and the Bluray of season 1 is available... Mmm. It does look like something I'd like - sci fi is up my alley. Before SPN I mainlined on Firefly and Babylon 5 and any other sci fi I could get my hands on. Space detectives reminds me of another programme we used to really like on BBC - Star Cops. Looking it up now, it only had 9 episodes! What a waste.

[harrigan.livejournal.com]

Email me at ahr7542 @ att.net and I'll email you my PDF! I think there are lots of parallels with Firely -- you'll want to discover if the characters can trust each other or not... Some reviewers call season 1 of Expanse a cross between Blade Runner (futuristic noir mystery/sci fi) and Battlestar Galactica.

Expanse S1 (IMO) is a set of characters and you are trying to understand what motivates them and if they can count on each other, and meanwhile, solve a mystery that's a bit convoluted. (But the fate of the universe may depend on it!)

S2 - you'll have figured out who you're invested in, and you'll stay tuned to see how they each respond to conflict/crises, learn even more about them and their secrets in the process, and watch how the choices they make affect their relationships with each other.

Hope you enjoy!

[harrigan.livejournal.com]

I was just nodding along to everything and then I stumbled across the magic word. The Expanse!!! The characters there have totally captured my heart and given me that 'can't wait' passion each week (in season). Squee!

Every time I'm fallen in love with a series and a fandom (over the last 30 years!), I've wondered if anything could replace it in my heart when the show winds down. Something always came along. But I think I loved Supernatural in its prime more than anything before or since. I'll follow along till the very end... I still care about Sam n Dean, but it's not even my favorite show any more.

I have no words for how much I am enthralled by The Expanse. But I don't think I have any interest in reading or writing Expanse fanfic. Not sure I see an opportunity to engage in fandom with it. IThough if you see any art or vids or meta, let me know!)

[fufaraw]

Pretty much what you said, all of it, even in the comments. Not excited, but still dedicated and invested. Disappointed in the return of Same Old Cas. Appreciating Jared's acting maturity and Sam's self-understanding maturity. I think my love for Dean's self-imposed blindness and stubborn refusal to deal has all but disappeared, until Jensen's onscreen work brings all that love back. Mostly. The scene behind the fast fish place left me eyebrow lifted and "really? again with this?" which saddens me. I should not be indifferent about Dean's pain.

I'm angry they fridged Missouri, after we kept her alive in our hearts and fic and kept hoping they'd bring her back. I sneer at CW's worship of callow and spuriously attractive youth over beauty and complexity and maturity, and frankly, I grow weary of hoping for better.

Jack is beginning to grow on me, and I'm interested in the dynamic between him and Sam, and I hate to see that diluted, or more likely replaced, by Jack's relationship with daddy!Castiel.

I miss Crowley. I miss Rowena. I want Bobby to run a long pike through Lucifer and team up with Mary to kick some AU ass. If we get to see them doing so on that side of the rift, I'm not sure I want them back in the same world with the brothers.

I hadn't found another show to be invested in, but I stumbled across Shadowhunters this summer, and I am intrigued. I DVRd new eps after I caught up on previous ones--and for the first time since SPN S6, I rewatched eps immediately after they aired. I love the characters, I love the cast, personally, and because they're diverse. I love the social issues addressed by the scripts, and whooboy! I love love love the pretty! It is silly, it's fantastic, but they don't ask for your belief in magic, you just fall into it as you watch. I really haven't felt this way about a show since S1-2 of SPN. I may not love it for 12 seasons, but for right now, it's just fine.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Shadowhunters, huh? Interesting - I'll check it out. I think I might be tending towards quickreaver's view though - that I won't be looking for a replacement for SPN anytime soon. The only relationships outside of SPN that intrigue me a little - enough to read fanfic and want to draw stuff - are in Marvel. I do love Bucky, and Steve, and Tony - all flawed, broken men who happen to be heroes. And Natasha is pretty kickass too.

[fufaraw]

While I love Natasha, I'm disappointed with the level of their disuse of her. And I would have followed Peggy Carter for at least 7-8 seasons, but they threw her away, too.

I was all in for Cap'n'Sam'n'Bucky and Tony'n'Rhody and Bruce'n'Tony, but the truth is, I've reached my saturation limit on Marvel, on superheroes and comics characters altogether. Don't care, we got any grenades? to quote Dean and Caranfindel.

But I'd be there in a heartbeat for more Natasha, or for Peggy, especially Peggy/Dottie. In fact, they could just call it the Peggy/Dottie show, with bonus Enver Gjokaj.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Natasha is definitely under-used - I really hope they will make a Black Widow movie.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

I agree with several of your thoughts, especially regarding the spin-off. I'm glad for Kim and Brianna that it got picked up, and I will hope for it to do well, but - righty or wrongly - I favour shows with male characters, and male leads. Always have, always will. That's why I could never get particularly excited over Buffy. And while nowadays I make a point of getting up early on Fridays to download our boys and watch them over my breakfast, I can't see me doing that for the spin-off.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I liked Buffy - for Spike and Angel, mainly. Yeah.

[hugemind.livejournal.com]

I agree with your griping and more positive parts, every single one of them. I even tried to see the IMDb page for the actress playing Patience but her age wasn't listed there (in fact, I can't find it anywhere within Google search results which is kind of interesting).

I've realized that I have no emotional attachment to Jack. The actor playing him is doing a good job, and the character is bringing out new sides in Sam, but other than that, I don't really care what happens to Jack. Maybe that's just my self-preservation instincts at work, trying to shield me from the inevitable moment when Jack turns evil the writers make jack turn evil for the drama, or maybe I'm just dreading that Jack will be used for something impossible like Lucifer's redemption arc (I really really really hope that arc never happens). Maybe I'm already feeling the 'meh' that will happen when Cas returns and plays dad to Jack. And since we're being honest, I can tell you that haven't found Cas interesting in many seasons now and I mostly just fear what he's going to do to screw the boys over this time (likely by ignoring whatever the boys are telling him).

I also seem to have no interest in the spin-off. Claire was already such a Mary Sue tailored for the Cas fans that it put me off and now we get another Mary Sue and all it took was sacrificing Jody's competence and Missouri, BOOOOOOO. All the blah blah lifted from self-help and positive thinking books isn't going to make it interesting when the characters themselves are not interesting.

Your last statement is very true for me, too, but I still wake up too early on Show days and do an eager little seal clap bounce dance. :)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I want to be excited about the spin off - I want it to be successful... BUT I don't think I'm going to like it, for all the reasons you mention. And yeah, everything else you've said above resonates with me. I really like the actor but the character? I have an academic interest in his fate, that's all. And Cas - yawn.

[sillie]

I'm pretty upset about Missouri (and I wasn't even her biggest fan; I wasn't to fond on how she treated Dean in season 1.). Bringing her back just to kill her, why show, why? :(

Also, the less I say about Castiel, the better. Just... ugh.

[fireheart13.livejournal.com]

all these thoughts are excellent and I relate