More musings on political systems

[amberdreams]

This is probably too much for a Sunday morning but thanks to ash48 posting this article on Facebook about American democracy and the rise of dictatorships, I'm here, musing again. I mused on FB too but then I thought it was probably a bit much over there, so I'm moving my musing to it's proper home. LOL

This article is very interesting if not also a little (no a lot) scary. it postulates (ala Plato) that too much democracy, too much equality, leads to the rise of tyranny. Of course, if you look at history, you can see how this has played out in different civilisations at different times. Not necessarily out of democratic government bases but where there have been similar sets of circumstances. The Roman Republic and the rise of the Imperial system, for one.

Part of me wants to scoff at the thought that there can be such a thing as too much freedom while another part is nodding - yeah, I can see this. Too much freedom can lead to chaos and anarchy. There have to be rules, people need guidelines or the strong will trample the weak because they can. But ack, I want the middle ground to succeed! Is there no real middle ground that allows tolerance to thrive without leading to Plato's blackest outcomes?

Comments

[milly-gal.livejournal.com]

The problem with free will is it can be abused.

I liken it to super powers. So Sam and Dean have extra training and can hunt like no other. In Gordon's hands that knowledge was toxic and led to some very dangerous situations.

Superman is a force for good, but the people trying to steal the powers he possesses...O.o

Free will is a fabulous thing, free thought and the ability to be one's own person is a right every human being has, but there are some human beings who abuse it beyond recognition and twist what should be a good thing into a horrific thing.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Mmm I see what you're saying but this isn't about free will, this is about freedom and people power en masse, rather than individuals. Though of course now that people power has been harnessed by an unscrupulous amoral creature, who knows what will happen?

[milly-gal.livejournal.com]

The freedom to be ones own self showed itself in the vote, and now we will have those same people and maybe a few more besides airing their own freedom to perpetrate heinousness.

Individuals aren't what it's about, no, but en mass the individuals that have 'spoken' could be a danger.

As *we* can come out and be brave and stand, so can they.

That's where the fear lies. For me at any rate.

[fufaraw]

Thank you so much for posting that link. I hadn't read the article, but wow, it makes so much sense.

That's a lot to overcome, a serious amount of undercurrent by an unsuspected, or rather, unacknowledged, host of factions, all driven by their own backgrounds and agendas.

There was far more to this campaign than most of us were aware of, and we were focused on the wrong things. And truthfully, we may never recover in our lifetimes the level of freedoms and democracy we'd reached before this election.

There's a lot here to think about, and none of it is sugarcoated, or hopeful.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

The article is almost prophetic, given that it was written before Trump...

Now I'm wondering if that will become a thing. BT, Before Trump. Let 's hope not.

I do have some hope too because of the number of people I've seen who are now motivated to take action. I don't mean the demonstrations, but more long term strategies to help minorities and preserve rights. If this disaster serves as both a wake up call and a clarion call to the liberal left then that might be a good thing.

[hugemind.livejournal.com]

That's a very good article and offers a lot of food for thought. Personally, I think that democracy fails when people are willing to sign over their freedom because they are tired, lost, or confused and someone is telling them exactly what they want to hear. And since democracy works best when people are responsible and make informed decisions, the win of emotional behavior and the sweet-talker will not lead to any wide-spread, improvement of the system or the current situation that is lead from the top. And we've already seen the sandbox-logic of "my guy won, so I'm obviously right about everything" which will not lead to any improvements in the system from the bottom-up either.

The middle ground is that we would have to be better at communicating on a peer-to-peer level. Pinning the failings of the society on a mass of individuals who do not perceive themselves to be in a position of power is maybe not the best way to start, because people instantly get defensive if they don't think they've done something wrong. If I've learnt something from this election, is that you can't just throw facts at someone and expect them to behave rationally and accept them - instead there would have to be a lot of grassroots education (not necessarily even perceived as education) and face-to-face discussions between two people just to get people to think on their own. This current method where strangers are shouting at other strangers via social media is not working.

I dunno, I'm feeling kinda bitter about all the bitterness and it's wayyyy past my bedtime.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Democracy and education have to be close running partners or ignorance will always prevail. There is also the argument that says because not all people are of equal intellect, democracy will never work because the lowest common denominator will always outnumber the intellectually able. Then you have a kind of intellectual snobbery instead of (or as well as) one of privilege.

It's all fascinating and worrying in equal measure!

[siennavie.livejournal.com]

I want to reply, but this is too complex to discuss in only so many words at a time and at snail-speed correspondence :) In short, this article makes some good and interesting points that I feel have long been lost or overlooked in political conversation.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I'm actually better at snail speed - when I try and articulate thoughts about complex issues like this talking to people I just get all tangled up! LOL

But yes, I loved this article - so very thoughtful and well reasoned, it totally resonated with me and seemed to sum up all the points I'd been picking up in dribs and drabs elsewhere.