Fanfic.net wank

[amberdreams]

I have to say this really harshes my melon.  I recently discovered a community of self appointed censors on Fanfic.net when one of their community 'reviewed' a triple drabble written by Edinaclouds, dizzojay and myself.  It's full of innuendo and general sillyness so we rated it a K+.  This so called review said:


Annabelle01 8/6/12 . chapter 1

Hello, Amberdreams.

I was taking a look at your story, and I wanted to tell you that this is rated a little low. You should bump it up to a T in order to meet the guidelines. If you could do this, I'd appreciate it. It would give others a warning that this stuff is a little more suited to T than it is to K plus. Also, if you're unsure in the future about what rating to give your story, it's always best to go a little higher than a little too low.

Annabelle [Member of Critics United]

I had another look at our story and thought about the rating, discussed it with my fellow authors and we concluded a K+ was fine.  I responded to this Annabelle01 saying very politely that we did not agree with her assessment, then did a bit of research about this group, Critics United.

I am really very disturbed and frankly upset about this group and what they are doing.  I can see the value in having people monitoring FF.net for trolls, and for blatant violations of the terms and conditions of posting (such as the rule about no explicit porn) BUT I think this policing should be done by FF.net, not by a few self appointed and self opinionated children, as most of this group appears to be under 18.  And even if the group was populated by a balanced representative group (including all ages, authors and readers, and different nationalities and fandoms), being self appointed, it would be difficult for it to be representative of the wide range of cultures and beliefs that the authors on that site covers. 
Moreover, what this Critics United group say about things is only their opinion NOT law.  Reading their forums, they seem to have either forgotten this fact or worse, never understood that they are not always going to be right in the first place.

There are few things worse than moral bigots wielding power they should not have.

I'm having this (probably not very well expressed) rant now because apparently the fact that is that as I did not agree with their opinion about the rating of our story, this means that they are now banding together to report the story to FF.net to get it taken down.  Without even the courtesy of a discussion with me about the rating - they tell me its wrong and that is enough.  Don't do as you are told or you get hit with the big stick.

I am frustrated, upset and very very angry about this.  I know FF.net haven't taken any action yet, but I do not see what steps are available to me as the person being targeted to protest or appeal, or make a counter-charge against these people.

I could probably go on and on about this and end up making less and less sense so I will shut up now.  And wait and see what happens next.

I'll just republish the triabble here, so you can see what you think about rating it K+ (which in LJ terms I think is somewhere between a G and a PG).  "K+ = Suitable for more mature children, 9 years and older, with minor action violence without serious injury. May contain mild coarse language. Should not contain any adult themes.

Man with the Golden Balls

---

E/O WOW: balcony. Our word was athlete in honour of the London 2012 Olympics.

A 3 x100 word triabble by Amberdreams, Dizzo and Edina Clouds (not necessarily in that order).

No spoilers, just nakedness and we don't own anything, not even the Olympics.

---

There were several things that were, frankly, concerning about the recently-disturbed spirit of the ancient Greek athlete standing before the bewildered Winchesters right now.

That this muscle-bound Adonis was freakin' huge, like, 'towering-over-Sam' huge with biceps like boulders and jaw like a granite balcony for one.

That he was aiming a badass-looking javelin right at them, for another.

Then there was the toe-curling fact that he was butt-friggin'-naked.

But worst of all, was that this sinuously sculpted monolith, with his glistening, bronzed physique a study in towering strength and magnificent architecture, made both brothers feel just a tiny bit inadequate.

x-x-x

Especially when the ancient athlete made his move, spectral-muscles tightening as he ran towards them, left arm physically outstretched, right arm pulled back ready to release his lethal weapon.

"Now," Dean yelled opening fire on the naked runner – doing his best to ignore the Herculean, bouncing genitals.

It was Bobby's cue. Positioned on the balcony above he began reciting a classical Greek incantation whilst the Winchesters continued firing into the long dead Olympian.

But the salt rounds failed to stop the oncoming titan; failed to stop the release of the javelin which was now heading straight towards the older Winchester.

x-x-x

Bobby's balcony gave him a Royal-Box view of the Winchester Olympics.

First Dean took at least a silver medal in gymnastics floor exercises as he somersaulted out of the path of the sharp pointy object headed his way.

Then Sam proved that he should have been competing in the trap when he fired two perfect rounds in quick succession right into the Greek athlete's temptingly dangling unmentionables.

Fortunately for the ghost, the agony of having his family jewels blown away was short-lived, as Bobby revived the poetry gold medal and finished off the incantation.

"Time for the national anthem, boys."

Comments

[peepingdru.livejournal.com]

Definately a case of no life in RL....
Great fic btw...xoxooxox

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Aw thanks Dru!

[raloria.livejournal.com]

I Googled this Critics United. They're accused of cyber bullying and I must say I agree. Who gave them the right to police FF.net?

I think your rating for the story is fine. If a K is 9 yrs or older, I believe it's probably suitable reading. Not like the fic is overly explicit. Do I think kids that age are going to read fanfic like this? Probably not. Just my honest opinion. So why are they worried? Seems a little silly to me.

Don't let these bullies get to you. *hugs*

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the hugs, I appreciate it. This thing is bugging me too much, I know.

[lustmordred.livejournal.com]

I heard about them a few years back and they were doing the same thing to someone else I knew from fandom. It doesn't seem like anyone really takes their opinions seriously, except for them I suppose. I wouldn't worry too much about what ff.net will do. They probably won't do anything since you're not violating any major rules and rating on that site is at the author's discretion anyway.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Sadly, they are getting a rise out of the FF.net mods on a lot of their 'reporting' and fics are being taken down. I'm waiting to see what happens though.

[embroiderama]

What a bunch of jerks! Your story fits K+ just fine. *hugs*

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Cheers m'dear - and I LOVE your icon!! LOL

[adrenalineshots.livejournal.com]

My god! This story actually implies that men have genitals? You know that 9 year olds aren't aware of that fact, right? I mean, most 9 year olds ARE (because they're kids, not idiots), but the douchebags with no mirrors or eyes that apparently make for the totality of that prude police, somehow missed that simple anatomy fact.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Hee hee most 9 year old I know would think this was hilarious simply because it features nudity, all the euphemisms for the various dangly bits would go right over their heads.
But I despair of the kind of person who has this mentality - they are the ones who'd have put the frilly coverings on piano legs...

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

BFBL!

[etrix.livejournal.com]

Yes, ff.net has a TOS which specifies the story types and content they don't allow; and sure, they don't check every story as it's posted because they have lives, so they have to rely on tattle-tales to warn them when a story has gone over the line.

This little ficlet-y thing doesn't go over any lines.

Ancient Greek Olympians competed in the nude. That's a fact. Only men were allowed to compete. That's also a fact. It would therefore be inevitable that an Ancient Greek Olympian running across the field would have his dangly bits bouncing around for all to see.

I wonder if you could get on the ALA's lists of 'challenged stories'? Right up there with Charlotte's Web, Winnie-the-Pooh, and A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

This was well-written, fit the fandom, and a perfect humourous counterpoint to the London games. Ignore them, but fight back if needed.

(To view the American Library Association's Banned and Challenged book site, click here

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I have to say, Americans terrify me sometimes. I know they aren't the only ones to behave this way (with such amazingly hypocritcal prudery) but still...that list of challenged books is scary as hell.

Oh and thank you so much for the lovely review!

yeup - you're right

[edina-clouds128.livejournal.com]

Couldn't agree more with everything you said, hun
and yes - don't fall off your chair - I'm actually using LJ (one good thing out of all of this I suppose!)

Re: yeup - you're right

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Wheeee! Hello Viv!! This is nice...

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I wondered what had transpired from this. I responded to the complainer but have yet to receive a reply. Doubt that I will, honestly. She strikes me as the sort of person who can't be confrontational. Hey, if you're gonna call yourself a critic, you'd better be able to put your money where your mouth is.

(FYI, your fic has been put on a list at the Critics United forum for their members to visit and, uh, I dunno, report or review? But it doesn't look like anyone has done that yet. I might post on their forum though, questioning their tactics on this particular situation. Their opinion is not law, in this case. Your fic doesn't break a single site rule.)

I guess I don't mind that they police blatant rules infractions (though that is NOT the job of a critic), but I wholly disagree with their decision to complain about your rating. It'd be different if it were porn-y, which is against ff.net's rules. But as I've said before, your work is totally appropriate for the rating.

This group is largely youngsters, many of whom don't even post fic to the site. They're a bunch of vigilantes who want to be part of something that wields a modicum of power. Which is okay, I suppose. As long as they don't lose sight of their own individuality and become some sort of misguided 'hivemind.'

Keep us updated.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

We decided to email the FF.net mods to get their opinion on the rating. If they say they think it should be a T we'll change it. But it's up to the Mods to interpret their rules, not some arbritrary group of vigilantes. Just like in real life, actually!

Thanks for your support, we appreciate it!

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

SMART. I just posted a reply in their forum, mostly because they need to know what they're doing is not necessarily kosher. Enforcing the rules and acting as a neighborhood watch is fine, in practice, but forcing your opinion down someone's throat is NOT.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Hmm! Just got a reply:

"Posting in member only threads is against the rules of the group, and has earned you a ban in the forum. We appreciate your concerns but we aren't the ones deleting stories, the site administrators do that. If they feel the story is safe, nothing will happen to it and we'll leave it alone."

Nowhere was it posted that the thread I responded to was 'members' only', OR I WOULDN'T HAVE POSTED THERE.

EDIT...I stand corrected. Stuck to the bottom of the 'stickies' section is a "What you must read before posting" thread. It's looooong and yakkity. But I missed it and now, I'm banned. Fabulous. Additionally, in a subsequent PM, I was told I was discourteous and reckless. ME? REALLY?

These guys are so full of themselves, it's stunning.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Wow. I was just reading their threads talking to each other about the world of FF - or rather the world as they see it. Un FF believable. They react incredibly badly to any form of critisism themselves I think they should rename themselves Hypocrites United.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I cannot agree more. They break their own guidelines right and left. I was particularly vigilant about my tone when writing my response because, well, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. The guy who responded -- Son of Palpatine or something like that? -- was not so bothered, let's just put it that way. Like I've said, I guess I get the creation of a vigilante gang to enforce the rules, but that is not the role of 'critic'. Their qualifications for that job are waaaaaaay lacking.

[erickajane.livejournal.com]

I agree, they're totally out of line and frankly, I'm getting kind of sick of FF.net in general. I've always hated their rating system and their tendency to censor.

I'm assuming the group's upset about "bouncing gentiles," but seriously, by 9 or 10 kids have already had sex ed and they hear worse things from the media, or from friends. They should probably get a life and get of their high horse.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

The more I read of what they write on their own forums the more I think that they are likely to end up being the only members left on FF.net if the site Admins don't get a grip on their activities soon. Many of the fandoms they operate in are full of kids attempting to write - and yes, I'm sure many of those fics are truly terrible but unless those authors ASK for concrit, nobody should be marching in there and telling them how to write or what to write. Their arrogant attitude is completely appalling, and their own reaction to anyone who dares to critise them is childish in the extreme (check out quickreaver's response from them above - and that was mild compared to some of the things I read on their own forums).

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

They argue that they're not cyber bullying. I trawled through their website the other day and looked at some of their profiles.

So I include herewith for your entertainment some excerpts which perfectly disprove their repeated whining that they are not cyberbullies, but perfectly prove that they are up-their-own-arse thoroughly nasty pieces of work!!

CU Member A writes "As for my critiquing style, I am brutal. When I say brutal what I mean to say is that I couldn't care less about your feelings. If there's something wrong with your writing, I'll tell you and I won't be nice about it. Why? Because I've got better things to do than to coddle you so suck it up and fix the problem with your writing."

CU Member B writes "On another note, if I see something that's breaking the rules and ridiculous I won't be nice first time at all. The only way I can describe this reviewing style is cruel."

CU Member C writes "If it looks like you put effort into a fic, I will tell you what I liked about your fic and then what you could improve. If it looks like you put little or no effort into a fic, I will tell you flat out what is wrong with your fic."

CU Member D writes "my review style can vary greatly depending on my mood that day. I can be very harsh and unforgiving, while some might be very nice and somewhat (only somewhat mind) polite."

Words fail me!

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

There is NOTHING constructive about the method of critiquing they employ! They wouldn't enjoy this sort of behavior being aimed at themselves, I guarantee it. Funnily, many of them don't even have the balls to put their own work up, or if they do, it's not under their CU handle.

"I'm just here to critique." Yeah? And what are your qualifications? Why should I trust your direction? And if you can't be arsed to use common courtesy, you'll get as well as you give and should LIKE it. Clearly, it's the way you communicate.

The more I see of this group, the more I agree with Amber: if FF doesn't put a reign on them, they will drive a lot of mature talented authors away, not just the 13-year-olds using song lyrics.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Yup - condemned out of their own arses, methinks.

[ficwriter1966.livejournal.com]

I think I'm speechless too, Dizz. What a bunch of self-entitled little shits. I feel like... "Who died and made you queen?"

The sorry (well, sorriest) part of this is, there are some writers out there who might well be hurt enough by the crap these people are dishing out, that they'll give up writing. And anyone who causes that to happen to someone else, ought to be ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

Couldn't have put it better myself!

I have a friend who has a sixteen year old son who is dyslexic, and very self-conscious of the fact. He's very creative, and despite his dyslexia, he has just started writing and posting fanfic, and - although it's in a fandom I know absolutely nothing about - it's good!

Of course, as hard as he tries, you pick up the odd few spelling mistakes, but he's getting better with each chapter.

One wrong word from these morons could shatter his confidence for good, and that would be unforgivable.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

The trouble is, I think from reading some of the exchanges they've had with other people who've expressed opinions about their activities, they honestly couldn't care less about hurting people. Their typical response seems to be along the lines of 'suck it up, wimp' but less polite.

I really wish I'd never discovered the complete cess pool that they exist in, but knowing it is there I can't ignore it.

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

It's like a loose scab that you can't leave alone!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I feel obliged not to leave it alone - I even woke up in the middle of the night thinking about what I wanted to say to the FF.net admins about censuring these dickheads before they really hurt someone (if they haven't already).

[dizzojay.livejournal.com]

Well, if enough of us voice our concerns FF.n might feel obliged to do something about it.

[sasha-dragon.livejournal.com]

First of all may I say I loved the story! Then may I say ye gods don't some people have better things to do? I really can not see a problem, there is nothing sexual in your imagery, just a description of how the ancient Olympians competed.

Some people really need to remove their heads from up their asses, and leave the censorship to the professionals...you know Hollywood!

You rant away I'm right behind you! and would it be alright to friend you? I love your art and that story was just fabulous.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the supportive comments and yes of course, friend away.

[sasha-dragon.livejournal.com]

It was no problem, simply because the story was brilliant and I just don't get the small mindedness of some folks. And thank you I'll friend away.

[dragonlit.livejournal.com]

First, I think that story is fantastic and Sooo timely. Loved it! It was a great giggle and absolutely nothing inappropriate about it for the rating.

Second comment is WTF? Cyber bullies is putting it mildly based on all the comment people have posted. I do remember being warned against posting on ff.net before so I have rarely ventured there other than to read the occasionally fic. Thankfully, there are other sites that do not tolerate this kind of shit.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

There are other sites, this is true. Two of us have written to the FF admin to point out that setting aside the whole rating issue which it pretty minor, this group could cause a massive amount of damage to young people attempting to share their writing (my friend's dyslexic son for example) given their stated stance on basically flaming 'bad writing'.
I'm waiting for their response on the rating before I add my voice to the mix, but given that this group have been doing this shit for a couple of years, I doubt we'll be the first to complain, and yet FF.net seem to have done nothing to curb their vitriol.
So I'm not hopeful.

feeling a little guilty .... but

[edina-clouds128.livejournal.com]

Must admit I'm feeling a little guilty this morning, Amb because it was my "bouncing genitals" (well not literally mine of course) that seems to have caused the problem here.

I know I'm nuts - but I feel like I've let you & Dizz down because now we have these guys floating around us (got no doubt that we're on their hit list now).

However on the other hand at least now we know about them. And I've been able to warn James about them. Told him last night that if he ever gets a review from somebody stating they're a member of Critics United that he's to show me straight away. Glad I've done that now because I was especially worried he'd get something from them and stop writing.

Re: feeling a little guilty .... but

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Good lord you shouldn't be feeling guilty about anything!! You see this is exactly why these people get me so mad. They stir people up and care nothing for the consequences. They are selfish, arrogant and embody everything that is hateful about human beings.

And everyone who wasn't born with a idiotically repressed sexuality LOVES your bouncing genitals.

And that isn't something one says every day Bwhahahahh!

Re: feeling a little guilty .... but

[edina-clouds128.livejournal.com]

maybe my bouncing genitals will go down in history!

[heavenli24.livejournal.com]

I've been silently seething about this for the last day or so, and having looked through the Critics United forums, I'm pretty disgusted by the whole thing.

It seems to me that there is no consideration or common sense incorporated into these peoples' decisions - they take the rules completely literally and bully anyone who 'they' think is in violation of them.

For example, one of the rules is no interactive stories, including second person (which is a stupid rule, because second person is a legitimate writing style) - apparently second person fic was banned because of people basically writing instructional porn, therefore providing the user with an 'interactive' story :P. Okay, so fair enough - it makes sense to ban those kinds of stories... but to take the rule so literally as to report any second person story is just taking the piss. The emphasis of the rule is on the 'interactive' part (including Q&As, 'choose your own adventure') and a second person story isn't necessarily interactive.

Another thing I've just noticed is that they are reporting tons of fics with song lyrics or excerpts from books or the source material in them - they are claiming that it is against the rules to post any kind of copyrighted material in a story and that it's technically plagiarism (um, actually,no, it's only plagiarism if the original writer is not credited and you claim you wrote it yourself).

Now, the actual rules says: 3. MST: comments inserted in between the flow of a copied story.

Well, I just looked it up and MST is a specific type of fic writing style (based on the format of Mystery Science Theater 3000) where the author copies someone else's fanfic and inserts their own snarky comments into it during the story. This is what has been banned, not song lyrics or quotes from the source material (unless, I guess, you're making snarky comments about the lyrics or the prose instead of incorporating them into the story) :S.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Ah MST then is like that Sporking com on LJ - where they critique bad fan fics para by para. That makes sense for FF.net, which isn't supposed to be a site for critics but for fics.
What gets me is that all this is very clear to us who are only just starting to look at this group - but they have been active for a couple of years yet FF.net seem to be perfectly happy to allow them free rein, and moreover, are presumably 'upholding' their manifold and unreasonable complaints.
So I don't hold out much hope of a reasonable response from FF.net mods. But we'll see.

[mangacat201.livejournal.com]

Wow, I mean, wow... I read the story and found it pretty funny, but to haggle about the rating there? Seriously, the ratings aren't there because ACTUAL nine-year-olds customarily read fanfic. And even if, there was some innuendo, phhhhft, but I think you're right that the story is fairly within the parameters of the definition of K+.

Now as for that nice little knitting circle you found there, I have to say what I read in your rant and comments thereafter, it sounds to me an awful lot like this group is a band of people that fall under that mantra: 'Those who can, do, those who can't 'teach'' (now that's not really an accurate comparison especially since teaching is serious bizniz but I think you get what I mean)

It's a bunch of people who seems like they have a seriously overinflated sense of their own importance in the grand machinations of the universe of fanfic and too much time on their hands. They're trolls. Worse they're trolls in the guise of troll watchers and I think, quite frankly, what they do is misguided and hypocritical and disgusting. Sadly, this type of person is also normally pretty resistent towards rational arguments or *gasp* proper thinking. I'm also not in high hopes that FF.net will do something about them (I've given up on that soup like years ago) but know that the mature and reasonable part of the fan community is right behind you on this. guuuuh. MAkes me mad, so mad.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your interest! I've not heard anything more from them (or FF.net admin who I emailed for a decision on the rating), so we'll see if these hypocritical trolls take it any further...

I'm trying not to get mad at the moment by not thinking about it LOL

[mangacat201.livejournal.com]

Well, I think they might just be the kind of people that can't take it if someone's actually pushing back. it's just sad to see that off all things the internet has given us, the evil people also get a slice.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I don't really see the point of ratings if you can't have some discretion on how you interpret them (especially as FF.net's rating don't correspond with the film board ones commonly used elsewhere which seem to be better understood). If I stay on FF.net I'll just rate everything M in future, saves bothering about any wankers complaining and means I don't even have to think about it at all. Lazy, but there you go.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Yes I tried to make that read across but it doesn't actually work as I think their ratings are actually more severe than the film ones so they didn't seem to read across. Anyhow I've decided now everything I post on there will be an M - it's not like it will make any difference to my readership - I don't have a big following! LOL