Captives - episode insta reaction. Spoilers!

[amberdreams]

Before I read anyone else's thoughts, risky though it is to express an opinion these days, here's mine.

I'll say the most controversial thing up front to get it out of the way - I'm actually glad there wasn't a big make up, forgiveness-hug-it-out scene at the end there. Kevin is right, of course, telling them to grow a pair and sort themselves out, but just because Kevin tells them to, doesn't mean that the show needs to do this straight away.  It would have felt, to me anyway, like a trivialisation of all the deep problems between them had they been able to reconcile their differences just like that.

Besides, where Dean is an act-now, think-later kind of guy, Sam isn't. Sam is a thinker, he tends to mull things over before coming to any conclusion. We saw that moment of hesitation before he went into his room, no doubt intended to show he wants to make up with Dean, but that he's just not ready yet. And to be honest, I can understand that. Trust is something that is hard to get back once you've lost it - though I don't think Sam has actually completely lost his trust in Dean any more than Dean had actually lost his faith in Sam when Sam was drinking demon blood. Deep down, it's all still there, but there is surface scarring that needs to heal before they can get back on track.

And we saw that at the start of the episode. What was each of the brothers' first thought when there are signs of danger? The other's wellbeing - Dean shouting for Sam, Sam bursting out of his room and prowling the bunker looking for Dean. These boys still fucking LOVE each other, however much they are willing to hurt each other.

My only concern is that Carver understands this, and will give us what we need before too long, because this does hurt us fans as well as the boys. Hey ho.

That aside, while I was watching, I was actually more interested in Mama Tran and Kevin - break my bloody heart all over again, show, why don't you. I might still be in this mode re: Kevin's demise....

Just substitute Kevin for Coulson and that's about right.

Mrs Tran is awesome and I am very glad they didn't kill her off, and confess to a few tears at the end when Kevin goes home with her.

Points of interest
- Heaven is closed and souls are in the veil...there should be a virtual epidemic of hauntings going on then, shouldn't there?
- Bart's reception room was cleverly filmed, I loved how the bodyguard angel was reflected in the shiny, shiny table between Cas and Bart's seated figures
- BAMF Cas is the best kind of Cas (though I was less than interested in his storyline, and him gathering followers/an army of fallen angels is a bit meh, been there done that before...)
- Isn't it a bit odd that all the angel scenes there was no mention of Gadreel? Surely he is a player in their game as Metatron's assassin?
- What was it with Sam the Fed-Librarian? Tweed jacket? Little jumper/tank top? All he needed was the glasses
- Sam's hair! All curled up at the ends! Hee.
- Bart had scary teeth
- Loved that the demon Del banged on about Demon rights
- Nothing to do with SPN but of relevance to writers of porn - apparently the average man's erect penis is about 5.57 inches or the length of a biro. So there you have it.

So overall, on a first watch, I really liked this episode. I wish I hadn't seen a still from the fecking trailer, that gave away it was Kevin's ghost, but never mind. I'll be interested to read what everyone else's deep thinky thoughts are after this little paddle in the shallow end.

Comments

[tifaching.livejournal.com]

No deep thinky thoughts here, but I agree that having them make up there would have been too easy. Also totally agree with your thoughts about their actions at the beginning. I was totally unspoiled until I saw Osric's name in the credits and he was so adorable. And his Mom was so fierce. I really liked this one.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Mama Tran is a kickass character. I love how tiny she is next to Jared too.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

Good review! Looooved the Trans to bits. I dig your Points of Interest too. I think you might be right on the "epidemic of hauntings" front.

On first watch, the episode felt a little draggy to me but I'll give it a second spin!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

For once, I actually thought the pace was ok (though I bet I'll be skipping the Cas parts on the rewatches, LOL)

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

That might be part of it actually! I didn't find the angel bits very compelling? I miss the angels like Zachariah and Uriel and those guys. These current ones just seem kind of underwhelming, not particularly creative or something. I do think, at any rate we need the angel plot--we need to figure out what's going on with Metatron--so on we jog!

[bt-kady.livejournal.com]

I understand the need for Sam to think things through, and the need for angst and conflict in the show, but the brothers have been estranged long enough. I want Sam to get his shit together soon, in the next episode or two, and let the brothers get things patched up. There's too much going on around them they need to worry about. Besides, the situation between them is killing me. :-(

Loved seeing the Trans again. The Cas and the angels stuff bores me.

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

Why should Sam be the one to get his shit together? Dean hasn't apologized. He hasn't acknowledged that what he did was wrong -- in fact, he's insisted it was right. He hasn't expressed an intention of changing -- in fact, he's said he'd do it again. Whether Sam stays angry or lets it go, it will be completely empty if Dean doesn't get off his butt and begin working on himself and the relationship.

Whether Sam holds onto his anger or lets it go, Sam can't fix this. The only one who can is the one who broke it, and that's Dean. I understand the feeling that if only the angry one gave up their anger and made the sad one happy all would be well, but this really isn't about feelings. A forgiveness that Dean does nothing to earn would be meaningless, and Dean, so far, has done literally nothing.

[bt-kady.livejournal.com]

I see your point, and I know both brothers are to blame. I'm not choosing sides here. All I know is that I'm ready for them to resolve things and get their relationship back to where it needs to be.

[cassiopeia7.livejournal.com]

risky though it is to express an opinion these days

Yeah, there's that. I liked the episode as well as you, but yeah, getting a bit wary of expressing opinions outside my own journal.

Agreed that a makeup scene at this point would have been too early, too easy, and not very believable, especially after all that's been going on.

These boys still fucking LOVE each other, however much they are willing to hurt each other. / My only concern is that Carver understands this, and will give us what we need before too long, because this does hurt us fans as well as the boys.

Agreed x1000. You can only bend a piece of metal so many times before it is irreparably damaged. The same goes for the brotherly relationship AND the fandom relationship.

the average man's erect penis is about 5.57 inches or the length of a biro.

... and now, every time I pick up a pen, this will be on my mind. Thank you. :D

[jennytork.livejournal.com]

maybe that's why they call it a "Pen"

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Ha ha ha you are welcome...!

[tifaching.livejournal.com]

Haha, I was wondering what a biro was.

[jackfan2.livejournal.com]

So my question is this: If Dean hasn't repented and still believes what he did was right, that saving Sam was right and that he'd do it again, if Sam dislikes this so much, why did Sam allow Dean back into his life? Clearly, Sam wants to let nature take its course, if he is killed in a hunt, he wants to stay killed. Dean hunting with him, the cycle will never be broken when Sam clearly wants it to be.

Just curious. It just kinda doesn't make sense the way they're going about it. The whole 'we're not brothers but we can hunt together' line, Dean will never see their relationship in that way. Never.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I don't think that it's necessarily illogical for Sam to still want to hunt with Dean - Sam doesn't want to die. He was ready to die at that moment in time, he was willing to let go and had, indeed, chosen to let go until he was deceived into changing his mind. The crime wasn't saving Sam's life, it was the manner in which Dean did it - if Sam had been given the facts and had decided to take the risk of being possessed by an angel himself, then that would have been different. But that choice wasn't there, and he was taken over and occupied - and then his body was used to kill a young man who Sam was responsible for and who was a friend.

So I think it's totally believable that Sam is still angry, guilty and feeling frustrated that Dean doesn't yet seem to truly understand what he did to Sam and why it wasn't the right thing to do.

To be honest, I'm not sure, like you've said, how Dean can be made to see this, as in his view, saving Sam is what he has to do. It's his imperative.

[jj1564.livejournal.com]

Being a very shallow person all I can say is Dean looked super sexy lying on the bed listening to his music at the start and Sam looked damn hot in the tight grey t-shirt! And Dean's face at the end, those sad eyes and pretty lips, oh my!
On a more serious note, I'm still angry with Sam for being such a bitch to Dean (yes I know what Dean did was wrong but boy is he paying for it!) and I kind of want Sam to be in a life or death situation dependent on Dean and Dean hesitates because perhaps he should let Sam go this time and Sam begs Dean to save him, would be fitting I think!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

You see, it's funny but I just cant be angry with Sam on Dean's behalf like that, because I really think Sam is right to be angry with Dean. I'm actually surprised how restrained Sam is being but I do wish he'd try to explain why he's angry because Dean just doesn't get it.

But yeah, both of them are looking super hot - even in their strange tweedy jackets and trousers...

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

I don't have any deep thoughts to contribute. Kevin's plot worried me on many levels. One, Kevin's "your fight is stupid, get over it" speech seemed to have trivialized Sam and Dean's issues. Two, Mama Tran's "at lease you are both here" seemed to back Dean up. Three, human living with a ghost never ends well, and I love the Trans too much to see them go through it, even though this may be saved as a lesson for Dean later to learn to let go.
Also, when Dean said something like, Crowley is keeping the prisoners alive, I was reminded of the box metaphor de_nugis talked about earlier, how Sam is trapped in boxes?
And Dean put earphones on at the end of the show. Doesn't loud music make it hard to think? Is he escaping, shutting the world out?

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

The earphones thing - I'm sure that is exactly what Dean is doing - not sleeping, drinking too much and shutting everything out.

What a mess!!

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I don't think Kevin truly understands why Sam is mad and why the boys are fighting; he just sees them skulking around the bunker, pouting at each other. ;)

Somebody up-thread (I think) said they thought the Trans' situation would become a teaching moment for Dean about how to let go. And that might be where the writers are going with this.

Dean is definitely shutting out the world and isolating himself. And there again, I think that's the writing, coaxing him to go Darkside. Which I think could be pretty interesting! So there is some juicy stuff in the offing, but right now, it's hard to watch the brothers being so unhappy with each other. *hugs*

[spnmonster.livejournal.com]

Kevin's comment to get over does seem to trivialize their issues, but his statement that his mom was taking home a ghost kind of puts in perspective. His mom will never hug him again or have any reason to cook is favorite meal or tell him to get some rest because he's studying to late. She will probably watch him deteriorate into a vengeful spirit. From that perspective, maybe Sam and Dean's fighting does look pretty trivial -- not the issues, but the fact that they aren't talking about it or working through the problem. They are ignoring it, burying it just like they always do.

[jackfan2.livejournal.com]

oh! I'd love to see Dean go darkside.

On a lesser note; YOU GUYS CRACK ME UP!!! Best review/comment journal out there. Agreeing to disagree and still plenty of hugs and kisses and lust to go around ;)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Lord, how can you watch SPN and not deal out hugs and talk about hot boys? *wink*
As long as we stay away from Tumblr and Twitter, fandom gives me the warm fuzzies.

[auntmo9.livejournal.com]

I find it sad that so many people find it risky to express their own opinions on their journals.

It is too soon to patch things up quickly.
It was great to see Mrs. Tran again.
I cried when Kevin told the boys his mom was taking home a ghost.
Yes, the boys do love each other enough to call out for each other when they are in danger.


I realize I've left this screen open on my iPad for 8hours because I've been distracted by work LOL!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Heh well obviously I wasn't too bothered as I posted anyway. LOL

[zara-zee.livejournal.com]

Agree with all of this! :) Maybe we'll start to see a lot more hauntings in the next few eps? Maybe most of the new spirits just haven't figured out how to break through the veil yet?