Episode instant reaction - S09 E12 Spoilers

[amberdreams]

Sharp Teeth

So what did that all mean?

We had a dollop of the good monster theme again – the writers seem to really like that one in the last couple of seasons, don't they? And Dean has already showed how far he's moved from his old position of monsters are monsters and should all die, so I'm not sure there was anything new on that front here.

It never really felt to me like either brother was ever likely to kill Garth, and I’m not sure why Dean was convinced that the Reverend was an okay guy, but I’ll hand-wave that part. The boys hunted together without it ever feeling like they were in synch – so why would Sam think they were better off together? Sharing the pain?

I’m not sure about that, unless it was the fact that both of them now feel that the old patterns of behaviour are easier than being apart.

Because that’s the thing. In real life, brothers used to living in each other’s pockets would fall back into well worn grooves once they were back in the same circumstances. I wonder if we will see that next week - the uneasy settling back into something familiar.

And what about Sam’s terms? Hunt together but not be brothers? I don’t see how that could ever work. Everything that existed to make Dean lie and betray Sam is still there, so Sam won’t be able to trust Dean, even while they are working together.

If the show follows all this through to its logical conclusion, this would end the season with Gadreel, Metatron and Abaddon dead, and their work competed, the Winchesters going their separate ways, because there would be no reason to stay together any more.

Niggles (probably more than this but anyway)
What, Sam leaves his car and had NOTHING at all in it to take with him at the end there? No weapons, no bag???
Sam got knocked out AGAIN! HIs brains must be mush by now.
Mrs Villain was half-baked. Why couldn't they have had it so she'd been a total schemer for years or something? I was NOT convinced by her back story for 'turning' evil.

Oh I dunno.

Oh lordy, this one has left me feeling a tad depressed. On a lighter note - they reused Bobby's house set again! That room with the fireplace and the peculiar small high-up stained glass windows either side was in the werewolf Reverend's house.

Comments

[liliaeth]

Considering that Dean was able to work with Sam after s8, no matter how much Sam kept treating him like crap...

Sam is really losing what little liking I still had for him after s8

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Mmm I'm not sure Dean has ever totally forgiven Sam, certainly he's never forgotten. Not least because much of the troubles between them in the past have reinforced Dean's deep rooted insecurities and lack of self worth. I don't think either of them are the types to totally let go of things.

However, Dean and Sam are completely different people and Dean is the one who really messed Sam up this time, so I think the way Sam is behaving is understandable. In fact, I think it's a symptom of how debilitated Sam is that he isn't more angry with his brother. I love Dean like no other character I've ever been involved with, but he is in a serious mess right now, and I'm not sure he even realises how bad it is.

So I'm feeling bad for the both of them and can't see a way out until this dust settles.

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

I've been rewatching S4 recently, because on Dean's birthday I saw a lot people drawing Sam texting Dean, saying he forgives Dean and misses him, and I complaint to one of my friends, who I forgot was very defensive of Dean, and she said, "Now you know how I felt on Sam's birthday back when S4 was airing.”And I thought maybe I should watch S4 again with the working of my Samgirl filter reduced as much as possible. But really I can't be that angry at Sam because a lot of reasons unnecessary to be mentioned here.

One thing that hasn't changed from earlier seasons to the present one is Dean's I'm-older-so-I-know-better-than-you attitude toward Sam. He seems to always wait for the other shoe to drop. Back in S4, he accused Sam of falling for supernatural beings (Madison, Ruby and the woman mistaken for Siren), and he firmly believed that Sam would be seduced by Lilith even before Lilith came in town. It seems like, every time Sam opposes him in important matters, the big brother in him will start to lay unsound accusations on Sam and the words coming casually out of his mouth can be outright cruel, which only served to push Sam in the least desired direction . I think this confidence comes from his being the elder brother. And I think it's Dean's instinct to protect his authority and it's Sam's instinct to want to look up to him. Of course when Dean becomes too aggressive or oppressing Sam will fight to get the control back, but he'd hate to see his big brother defeated and it gives him no pleasure to disrespect him. So I think Sam said they could work but not be brothers because he wants to be on an equal footing with Dean. He finally realized that Dean didn't respect him in the way he respected Dean. By taking "blood" out of their relationship Sam might be drawing a line that Dean's deprived of the prerogative to cross.

I may have used the labels "Samgirl" and "Deangirl" too much recently, but I really don't hate Dean, though I want to smack him sometimes.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I love Dean, he's always been my favourite character but I never got angry with Sam even when Sam was clearly doing wrong by Dean in Season 4, or even when Sam was saying some pretty cruel/cutting things way back in Season 1 (Asylum anyone?) because I always saw that they were brothers who loved each other and even people who love each other say and do some pretty nasty stuff at times. So I tend to watch with Dean goggles on, but that (to me) means I love Sam too. So I fail understand when people start hate campaigns against one or the other of the brothers. It just makes no sense to me.

Then I love reading Sam!focused view points, because that helps widen my view and opens me up to thinky thoughts that just make my viewing pleasure that much deeper.

Does that make any sense?

[chomaisky.livejournal.com]

I need more girls like you around me both in my real and fandom life!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Ha ha not in real life, I'm a cantankerous old git. LOL

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Also I meant to say - yes to your point about Dean's authority - that is well made. I think people forget that their fraternal relationship has been skewed from 'normal' brothers who are close in age by the fact that Dean was forced to act in loco parentis for most of their growing up. So a lot of the time when circumstances press on them, Dean slips into Parent rather than brother mode. You see it in real life where there is a bigger age gap between siblings...

[adrenalineshots.livejournal.com]

After the hype I felt from last week's episode, this episode felt kind of meeeh...

I mean, I love Garth, think he is adorable and him being overcome by one of the things he hunted was, honestly, just a matter of time.

It was cool to see a new side of werewolves that we hadn't encountered before (and one that makes sense, given that there probably has been werewolves since the beginning of times), but ultimately, it was a pointless episode.

The one thing that could be argued that was pivotal for the story line in this episode was the fact that Sam and Dean are back together.

Only... they're actually not, are they?

I mean, last couple of episodes we've had Dean in a very low point, thinking himself a killer and poisonous to others around him... and now because he met a nice pack of werewolves, he saw the light? I don't get it...

And Sam... I get it that he was feeling betrayed and robbed of his choices by what Dean did and any other person would be completely entitled to feel that way and never, ever again talk to his brother again. But all of this is coming from the guy who trusted more in a demon than his family, enough to let himself fall into addiction and murder(lets not forget the pediatric nurse that Sam and Ruby drained out of blood), someone that, because of his insecurities (as Garth wisely point out), has made dubious and sometimes wrong decisions with very, very bad outcomes.

Dean has made some really bad decisions as well, and as Sam's, his were made with the best of intentions and the worst of results.

BUT... (and this might just be the Deangirl in me talking) Dean comes off as someone who would never dare to jump on a high horse and look down on anyone, because he is aware of his mistakes and shortcomings. And Sam... actually climbed on the highest horse ever and offered to rejoin a Dean that is obviously still feeling like the scum of the earth, and does so under such demands that he might as well not do it at all. 'We can hunt, but not as brothers'?? How does that work?

Are we back to soulless Sam, only this time in a conscious and planned way?

And if Sam hasn't forgiven Dean, why join him again at all? Because he is a very confused guy that loves his brother but tries his best not to?

Other than the several romantic-comedy jokes that one could make about this relationship turn, I don't get it... I really don't.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I was struggling with the whole together but not as brothers - Chomaisky suggests this is Sam trying to ensure that they work as equals and getting Dean to do what he said he would way back when - treat Sam as a grown up. But even if that is the case, the point I was trying to make, badly, was that people wear on each other in the way they behave over a period of years, and establish patterns - and these are really hard to break without real conscious effort on both sides. So the likelihood is that they will fall back on old behaviours regardless of any 'terms' they lay out...

[adrenalineshots.livejournal.com]

Yeah... but wasn't that a battle that Sam won like... 3 or 4 seasons ago?

Dean backed away when Sam decided to face Lucifer on his own; Dean backed away when Sam convinced him that he was better suited to do the trials and survive...

I mean, I'm 8 years older than my brother and for me to show him that I see him as an equal is letting him buy me lunch...

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

You could say then, but then point to numerous minor occasions where Dean has over-ridden Sam - but of course the main problem was Dean overriding Sam's decision to die (albeit for obvious reasons) and then not allowing Sam to make an informed decision about Gadreel's possession.

I think it makes sense (and your example does too! LOL Poor Vasco!)

[adrenalineshots.livejournal.com]

Well, the thing is, Sam is well known for making the wrong decisions time and time again. How could Dean not over-ride him through all seasons 3 to 5, when Sam's decisions were being influenced by a demon, by demon-blood and by a misguided sense of saving the world?

After that, miraculously so (as it can only happen in fictional world) Sam regains Dean's trust and Dean respects his wishes of facing his actions and making emends.

Dean didn't override Sam's decision to die for the trials; he made him realize that dying was not what Sam had signed up for and that there were other ways to do it. It was Sam's choice to give up and chose life, not Dean. He didn't knock him out and carried Sam away.

Dean did trick Sam into being taken by an angel, but again, it was Sam's choice to say no to Death. Sam didn't ask fake-Dean what was the plan, he didn't ask for specifics on how Dean was even inside his head. He was, again, presented with a choice (even not knowing all the facts) and once again he chose life.

So, is Sam pissed off at Dean for being so convincing, or is he pissed at himself for the choices he made?

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Maybe both...and for trusting Dean, because he only made the choices he made because he believed Dean had a way to save him - if he'd known the choice meant he'd be possessed (especially given that his head has hardly been his own for quite a long time now) would he still have said yes? Of course neither we or Sam knows the answer to that...
Got to say, this is something I really love about our show - I mean how many tv shows throw all these dilemmas, knotty topics and controversial issues at their viewers week after week? :D

[caranfindel.livejournal.com]

BUT... (and this might just be the Deangirl in me talking) Dean comes off as someone who would never dare to jump on a high horse and look down on anyone, because he is aware of his mistakes and shortcomings.

The same Dean who told Sam he needed to confess to losing his soul? The same Dean who still hasn't apologized for any of the Gadreel incident? I love Dean, but he is more likely to accept non mistakes (failing to save Sam at Cold Oak for example) than things he has actually done wrong. And his horse is as high as Sam's at times. :-)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I think you are right, both have been guilty of a kind of moral blindness at times, and at the moment I really don't see Sam's reaction as unreasonable - in fact in some ways it's been very restrained, considering how hot Sam has run in the past.

[duckondebut.livejournal.com]

Dean comes off as someone who would never dare to jump on a high horse and look down on anyone, because he is aware of his mistakes and shortcomings. And Sam... actually climbed on the highest horse ever and offered to rejoin a Dean that is obviously still feeling like the scum of the earth, and does so under such demands that he might as well not do it at all.

I think the enormity of what has been done to Sam over the last ten episodes or so is lost on a lot of people.

Sam was dying. So maybe he didn't start the trials with the express desire to die, but whatever may have transpired in the church, in his dreamscape, Sam recognised that he was on the very brink of death. He knew it would take something bloody extraordinary and potentially disastrous for him to climb back from this, and made peace with his demise because, like he said, he didn't want anybody else to get hurt because of him.

Dean sees this. And Dean tricks him into being possessed by an angel anyway. Dean continues an extensive gaslighting campaign with Sam, lying to him, depriving of him of choice over his own body and mind. Dean undermines Sam's physical strength and mental abilities constantly ("you're weak from the trials!" "i killed all these demons effortlessly while you were knocked out!" "wait, you thought of the angel tracking plan all on your own?" "sam, you are not thinking clearly." "sam, [x] thing messed you up.") Eventually, Sam's body is used to kill a dear friend.

Sam's body is subjected to horrific abuse in order to wrench the angel out. Sam is hurt. Sam is beyond hurt: he is devastated. Once again, his mere existence has caused tragedy.

Then Dean makes it all about himself: "I'll burn for Kevin's death. I'm poison. I'll hunt down Gadreel. I was messed up." At no point does he come out and say: "I'm sorry for what this has done to you, Sam." And worse: he uses the 'family' excuse to put this horrific act of abuse under the carpet. "We're family, so that excuses everything, right?" Wherein, "we're family" is Dean-code for "I'm always right."

Sam finally recognises this. He is perfectly entitled to walk away. I wished he'd walked away. Instead, he offers Dean a way back to what they were: if family is an excuse to bury this shit so that it comes back to bite us again, then we'll take the "family" label off. We'll work as partners, as equals, and maybe one day find our way back to "brothers". It's not an ultimatum; it's Sam trying to reach out to his brother despite his well-justified anger.

As for Sam being on a high horse... Sam has spent five seasons grovelling and apologising for merely existing. He has endured centuries of torture, and he still does not consider that adequate penance. Dean STILL holds Ruby and not having a soul against him. Hell, Dean holds Sam finding some semblance of happiness against him. Sam has been ground down to the point of being suicidal. The fact that he stood his ground against Dean this time is a sign of health, not sociopathy.

(Amber, I'm sorry for doing this in your post. I will not engage any further.)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Heh no problem, debate away! I do see Sam as the victim here, and think Dean hasn't acknowledged the seriousness of what he did to his brother because he can't ever see that 'saving' Sam could be wrong. So much of this is driven by fear, and actions driven by fear rarely result in anything good.

[adrenalineshots.livejournal.com]

Wow... ok, all of that just to say: yup, I completely agree with your post *g*

[jj1564.livejournal.com]

All I can say is that I think Sam is being a little hard on Dean (and Dean is always hard on himself) but that's fantastic because Dean's sad face is a thing of absolute beauty! I am very shallow!

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Heh heh true....