ooops I may have over-reacted to FF.net

[amberdreams]

Update on the Critics United saga and FF.net

I just got an automated notification from FF.net admin saying our triabble has been removed.
I may have got a bit carried away in my response to FF.net support.  Ahem.

Dear Fanfic.net
I emailed you about this innocuous little story and its rating several days ago, asking for your advice on its rating so that I could take action to change it should you think that the current rating was incorrect. You haven't had the courtesy to reply. Instead I get this notification of removal - which I find extremely rude and discourteous.  This is not a reasoned, well thought out response to my query, this is a weak knee'd, over reaction to a small group of vocal and nasty members of Fanfic.net that you, as moderators and administrators of this community should be taking action to curb the excesses of.

You may guess from this email that I am somewhat angry about this.  You may not care.  Perhaps you are more concerned with appeasing a small group of (mostly) young and inexperienced people who are not even contributing their own writing efforts to your site, rather than making Fanfic.net a great place to be for the larger majority of fanfic writers who want to share their works without having it torn to shreds or subject to self righteous vigilanteism.

I know that other members of the E/O Challenge community have written to you expressing their concerns about the activities of the Critics United group, but as yet you have not seen fit to reply.  I would urge you to investigate our concerns with an open mind, as their activities are likely to cause a lot of harm if they turn on someone young or vulnerable.  They themselves have clearly stated they don't care about the feelings of the writers that the attack with their vitriol, and it is apparent that they do not understand the meaning of the words constructive critisism.  It is also not their place to make decisions about ratings of fanfics posted - that should be up to the site administrators.

Perhaps you are happy to abrogate your responsibilities but inevitably you will end up with a desert instead of the flourishing garden of the imagination your site purports to encourage.

regards

Anne-Marie (Amberdreams)

---

From: FanFiction <bot@fanfiction.com>
To: ambyrne1@btinternet.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2012, 16:35
Subject: FanFiction Admin

Amberdreams,

Title: "Man with the Golden Balls"
Summary: "E/O WOW: balcony. Our word was athlete in honour of the London 2012
Olympics. A 3 x100 word triabble by Amberdreams, Dizzo and Edina Clouds  not
necessarily in that order .  No spoilers, just nakedness and we don't own
anything, not even the Olympics."
Rating: "Rated: K+"
Storyid: 8396970

Main reason for removal: "Rating: explicit content or adult content above
current rating"

The above story has been removed because it violated the guideline detailed on
the upload page.

http://www.fanfiction.net/guidelines/

FanFiction.Net has a set of guidelines for the uploading of stories and
chapters.

Comments

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I was giving them a chance....and the drabble com over there is the only reason I'm still there at all.

[tifaching.livejournal.com]

Right? That drabble challenge is remarkable in its community and membership and activity. Though I haven't contributed to it as much as I would like lately, I'd really miss it if I left ff.net.

[auntmo9.livejournal.com]

I don't think you over-reacted at all. I puddle around on AO3. I haven't played with it enough to post anything there really. I haven't posited anything for months anywhere. But it sounds like it is worth jumping ship over. I mean, your drabble was historically accurate, too!

[sasha-dragon.livejournal.com]

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, I just can't believe they took the story down. Well thank god for AO3, I might still be struggling with how to post to it, but at least those vile children aren't there.

Maybe it's time to let FF.net go and play in pastures new, because it does seem like they have abandoned there original principles.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

It is very disappointing because their failure to act does seem to indicate these so called Critics are in tune with what the FF.net admins want.

[sasha-dragon.livejournal.com]

I'm not really all that surprised, when all the fun and games over SOPA, PIPA and ACTA blew up I'm sure that FF.net virtually said if they passed they would close down. No attempt to see if they could co-exist with the laws, they were just going to go. So this attitude doesn't shock me at all, better not to rock the boat rather than stand up for the authors, it's a shame really.

[etrix.livejournal.com]

to <support@fanfiction.net Title: "Man with the Golden Balls" Summary: "E/O WOW: balcony. Our word was athlete in honour of the London 2012 Olympics. A 3 x100 word triabble by Amberdreams, Dizzo and Edina Clouds not necessarily in that order . No spoilers, just nakedness and we don't own anything, not even the Olympics." Rating: "Rated: K+" Storyid: 8396970 This is not my story, but it is a story I enjoyed. It was removed because (in the words of your bot) "Main reason for removal: "Rating: explicit content or adult content above current rating" According to Fictionratings, on which you base your rating system, K+ is "Suitable for more mature childen, 9 years and older, with minor action violence without serious injury. May contain mild coarse language. Should not contain any adult themes." There was nothing explicit about this story. It mentioned that the ghost of the ancient Olympian was naked and male (historically accurate). It hinted that when the athlete ran, things... bounced, and it was distracting. That is not explicit. That is not adult content. And the pun in the title was funny, not offiensive. By your own system standard, this story should not have been removed, so why was it? Is your automatic response to remove a story that has been challenged? How many challenges did it receive? Were they targetted challenges from a specific group, or spread across a wide range of ff.net reader? If it was one challenge or a targetted challenge from a special interest group, may I point you to the Americal Library Assocation's site on banned and challenged books: http://www.ala.org/advocacy/banned/aboutbannedbooks. Specifically, the passage regarding the Library Bill of Rights, which states that, “"Librarians and governing bodies should maintain that parents—and only parents—have the right and the responsibility to restrict the access of their children—and only their children—to library resources.' Censorship by librarians of constitutionally protected speech, whether for protection or for any other reason, violates the First Amendment." I realize that fanfiction.net is not a library in the strictest sense, but the basic principle is the same. Every book that is challenged in a public library is read, assessed, discussed, and then judged based on the contents of the challenge. Automatic bans in response to challenges is not acceptable. The work should remain available until a decision is reached. Although you may want to add an admin warning that the work is under review for rating or TOS violation. Specifically, _____. At all stages, both sides should be allowed to present their views on the story and why they believe it does or does not meet the TOS. I also realize that ff.net is run essentially by volunteers, and this seems like a lot of work, but so are public library boards. Challenges can take time, but as a reader, author, and member of fanfiction.net, I'd prefer that you take that time. Tamara/Etrixan Userid 1554377 (you should be getting a cc of the email)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Wow thanks, this is awesome and so well expressed. I really hope they are paying attention, it would be a great shame for this resource enjoyed by so many to be brought low by a small minority group. However, my fear is that this small minority are actually expressing the views of the FF.net admin, who presumably lack the backbone to take a stand themselves.

[etrix.livejournal.com]

So far, there's been no reply to my email. Not that I was expecting one, but yeah... I wouldn't mind being pleasantly surprised.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

WTF. I am really REALLY disappointed with that stupid site. You didn't overreact at all. What's exceptionally frustrating is that Critics United got their posse of inexperienced lackeys to report the fic w/o so much as reading it themselves and making up their own minds, and FF listened to that vigilante group. Instead of discussing the rating with you, they just pulled the fic.

I've been banned from CU's part of the forum (simply because I inadvertently posted in the wrong thread) so I can't voice my irritation with them ... not that they'd listen, anyway. They're very dogmatic and defensive AT ALL TIMES. If you disagree with them, regardless of demeanor, they will not parlay with an open mind.

And frankly, the rule you supposedly broke, "Entry must be given the proper rating. No exceptions" is so very subjective, a 'no exceptions' mandate is almost impossible to justify. (Unless we're talking blatant porn, of course.) Man, I hate all-or-nothing options. The world is simply not that black and white.

I'll write a letter to the administrators. I'm still gob-smacked that FF hasn't come down on Critics United for appointing themselves the Neighborhood Watch for the site. They DO gang up on authors. All one has to do is peek at their forum. They put a fic on their watch list, frequently with insulting comments about the author, and instruct everyone to report that fic. Total mob mentality. It's, frankly, disheartening.

Few, if any of them, have their own writing on display under their Critics United handle. Wonder why? Why on earth would I ask for a critique from a virtually anonymous writer? Why do they call themselves critics? I'm flummoxed.

This sucks, Amb. I'm torn. I get some decent hits on the site, but their behavior is amateurish and weak. It's not their rating system I'm objecting to, it's their lack of leadership and willingness to let a 'civilian' vigilante group police the site.

Bunch of effin' lemmings.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

"Bunch of effin' lemmings." This! Word.

Trouble is, having gone into more depth now looking at both CU and FF.net's stated policies, the really disheartening thing is that I think CU are actually expressing the FF.net admin's own views.

There are things I like about the site - how you can get stats for each fic etc, and there have been improvements recently to the functionality, though I think AO3 still outclasses it by a country mile. BUT the ethos and underlying attitude seems to be - how shall I put it - right wing, prudish and 'republican'.

I'm thinking if I stay over there, I will just rate everything an M.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

M for maaarrrrrvelous! I think I'm gonna change every stinkin' one of my fics over there to an M. Just because it probably contains the word FUCK. HA! So there. Or does it say I can't over-rate a fic? Probably does somewhere...

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Hee hee the overrating rule will come next methinks...I've updated my profile blurb to tell everyone all my fics from now on will be M's regardless and that I welcome constructive critisism.

I've also rather childishly added a line to say I'm proud NOT to be a member of Critics United.

What? I can be petty with the best of 'em.... BFBL!

[mangacat201.livejournal.com]

Definitely not over-reacted. Actually pretty darn civil for the crap they're affording themselves, if you ask me. You went proactive and called up the issue with them, they didn't work on it, just probably got a bunch of forum-directed abuse notes and shot out of the left hand without actually checking in on the story.
I believe you're completely in the right about demanding a review of this case and if they still don't budge well, just tell them they'll be one member shorter after this. Probably more... jeez.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

It certainly appears that was what FF.net did... disappointing, certainly. Sadly, I don't suppose even a mass exodus will have much effect. And I don't flatter myself that my leaving will impact anything!

[mangacat201.livejournal.com]

Well, but you're not the only one this has been happening to (won't even talk about all the people that had their stories removed because the SUMMARY was not PG) so I think we can definitely write FF.net off. even if there's still people milling around there by the hundreds it won't be the ones that fandom really is about.

[reapertownusa.livejournal.com]

What the...? I more or less departed from FF.net a couple years ago because I found their allowed content/ratings perplexing - as in I wasn't sure which of my stories would or wouldn't be allowed there. I started getting paranoid about content because I didn't get the feeling that anything but PG-13 gen really was welcomed. I mean, I had people thanking me for only using FCC approved language. It was a little weird.

So, I've never heard of these Critics United yahoos, but I just looked at their forum...is this really just a random group of insanely bored people with no life who go around deciding whether or not they approve of story content? Seriously?! The little bit of that I've seen here on LJ with folks stalking the hardcore comms playing holier than thou about some content (that is well-warned and they don't have to read) is the one thing in fan fiction that makes me insanely irate. There's no reason to not just let people be - don't like it, don't read it.

Incredible... I'd be off the wall irritated about them targeting your story even if it was legitimately content questionable - because, frankly, that's none of their business. But yours sounds adorable, not offensive and...grr.

And I've seen folks disguise needless, insensitive, unhelpful tearing apart of stories as 'constructive criticism', which they seem to be saying they do. My background is in art and writing and those fields are defined by constructive criticism...and what they're describing isn't it. There's blunt and there's mean - constructive and destructive.

Those folks need to leave you alone and go get a life (and a dictionary).

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I was shocked when I read the member's self proclaimed bios on their com - their arrogance is astounding and profoundly disturbing. They clearly have no regard whatsoever for any damage they can do - as one of my friends has pointed out to FF.net admins, her son is dyslexic and has recently plucked up the courage to start writing and posting stories over there - she is really concerned one of these idiots will lay into him for poor grammar/spelling etc and put him off for life. It is entirely possible they have already done this to many other writers.
Now I'm a bit of a grammar nazi myself, but my view is, if a fic is riddled then I don't read it. I don't go and try and put the world to rights because it is none of my business. I have offered help to one or two writers in the past who are not using English as their first language, but only where they've said they'd welcome assistance in improving their English. wanton destruction is totally unwarranted - these sites are for people to have fun not be subjected to a systematic shredding of their egos.

[reapertownusa.livejournal.com]

That's exactly the thing - this is fan fiction. In most cases, these are not writers who have plans of becoming professional authors. They're just having fun creatively interacting with a 'verse that they love.

With actual, requested, constructive criticism and grammar assistance even folks who initially seem like horrid writers can quickly reach a point where their talent is shining through, but if they're shot down on their first attempt, sadly, that could be enough to chase someone away from sharing their writing for good. I dearly hope they do stay away from your friend's son. Writing is such a deeply personal thing that does require nurturing.

Oh, goodness gracious, when you mentioned the profiles I had go back to look...that's just embarrassing for them - silly, little kids who think a bratty presence on the internet makes them great.

I do have to say, though, at least you did answer my question about whether or not I should start posting at FF.net again. And made me desperately want Dean competing in traditional Olympics attire ;)

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

I think we should have an episode where the boys are cursed to be naked athletes for a whole 40 minutes...it only seems fair.

[monicawoe.livejournal.com]

This whole thing is so ridiculous.
Their FAQ is extremely vague about what each rating applies to. There were times when I've posted stories where I expected somebody to flag it because of the level of gore or violence. You have a historically accurate, non-sexual naked man, and somehow that's a problem. Seriously? I have a scene with 27 corpses - most of them with open rib-cages. But that's okay?
It makes me think of American TV logic, actually - decapitations, people being mowed down by gunshots, no problem, but a penis! Ye gods, what are we, heathens? No! You cannot air such filth. Boooo.
ff.net keeps getting more irritating too. It has a lot of traffic, but it won't if it keeps this shit up much longer. Have you gone to here at all? http://ffdotnetrants.livejournal.com/ Quite a few people have been fed up with this particular group of "critics" and their tactics.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

No I hadn't seen that before, how funny! I'll have a look tomorrow morning, thanks!

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I just went through and labeled all my fics 'M' over there. Just to make a point. I'm REALLY REALLY annoyed that ff.net allows this sort of mob mentality from mundane members. (Oooh, alliteration for the win!)

My husband made the point, though, that the site is probably practically run by a bot, for the day-to-day relations. They sell ad space; they make money. What do they care if the good writers leave? The site is clunky as all hell. I far prefer LJ and AO3.

[monicawoe.livejournal.com]

My husband made the point, though, that the site is probably practically run by a bot, for the day-to-day relations.
That's a really good point. That also explains the suckage.

[tifaching.livejournal.com]

I think you were remarkably restrained. What a crock.

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

Heh. I didn't feel restrained but it came out surprisingly articulate. I wonder if any human will actually read it.

[adrenalineshots.livejournal.com]

Lemme just say that, every time I see CU written anywhere, I can't help but lol! Not that I find them funny (at all!), but because CU, in Portuguese, means ASS... and it couldn't have fit better

Your reaction was way more polite and civil than anything I would've said to them. If the moderators of FFnet behave like a bunch of dickless morons (as stated by their rule of no-dick allowed), then the people at ASS can only be their inbred bastards.

I'm actually looking forward for the day that they turn their skeevy attentions towards my stories. What a gory field day they'll have!! *g*

[amberdreams.livejournal.com]

CU = ASS - that is so wonderful!!! Hee hee!